For example, when I was in Hawaii and saw the Scorpion rising, it truly looked like a fish hook to me and where I live in the southwest United States, that constellation really looks like a Scorpion.

The challenge remains as you stated that the signs (or seasons) and constellations currently have the same name and they aren’t the same thing hence the confusion – suggesting it would be helpful to use different names to help distinguish them.

Thank you again for this brilliant clarification of the difference between the three most used current systems.

Then we have the Sidereal or Fixed Zodiac, again dividing the ecliptic into 12 equal sectors of 30 degrees each, but focusing on the Moon and its mansions (nakshatras) and more or less ignoring the seasonal role of the Sun, which is seen as a malefic. For example, the solstices and equinoxes in the sidereal system now do not coincide with actual physical lengths of daylight, due to precession. This zodiac is purportedly based on the 12 zodiacal constellations, but like the tropical system is a geometrical abstraction based on symbolism, even though it holds that the first degree of Aries does not precess (hence Fixed Zodiac). Celestial positions are calculated from the Vernal Point in the tropical ephemeris using an ayanamsa of around 23 degrees, usually Lahiri’s version, though there are a number of others in use (and at least 3 Lahiris that I know of).

Lastly, we have the zodiacal constellations themselves, none of which actually occupy exactly 30 degrees of the zodiac. For example, on on October 24, 1997, the Sun would have been found in the Constellation of Virgo, the Tropical Sign of Scorpio, and the Sidereal Sign of Libra. In fact, in the jyotish system based on the sidereal zodiac (where the 1st degree of Aries is marked by the Sun rising conjunct a certain star in the Ram), the astrologers generally prefer to use the lunar mansions rather than the zodiacal signs.

None of this is intended to argue against the Shamanic Astrology idea of giving the constellations symbolic and interpretational independence from the tropical signs, but just to clarify matters. It is interesting that astronomers tend to use latin names for the constellations (e.g., Scorpius for Scorpio, which by the way occupies only about 7 degrees of the ecliptic), so that might be another possibility for distinguishing them. I say this because in many languages, the names for the constellations and for the signs are often identical.

I agree and so does Shamanic Astrology agree that no one system is right or wrong, better or worse…it is all part of the Great Mystery of the As Above, So Below and how we choose to engage it that brings meaning to our experience of these mysteries.

However, it would greatly enhance the credibility of astrology as a science if those of you who use the solar cycle astrology would communicate or get together and agree to change the names of your solar mansions.